380: Setting Boundaries, Finding Freedom: A Midlife Guide to Reclaiming Your Time & Energy w/ Laini Gray

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Courtney Townley 0:00
Are you tired of feeling exhausted, overwhelmed and stretched too thin? Discover why saying no might be your most powerful yes at midlife. In today’s episode of the Grace and Grit Podcast, we are going to explore how to set boundaries in a way that honor your time, energy and well being without the guilt.

Courtney Townley 0:17
Welcome to the Grace and Grit Podcast made for women who want their healthiest years to be ahead of them, not behind them. Join your host Courtney Townley right now as she breaks down the fairy tale health story you have been chasing all of your life into sensible action steps and lasting change.

Courtney Townley 0:46
Welcome to the Grace and Grit Podcast. I’m your host, Courtney Townley, I’m so delighted that you decided to join me for today’s episode, and I’m really excited to say that once again, I have my dear friend and colleague, Laini Gray joining me for this conversation.

Courtney Townley 0:58
If you’ve been around the Grace and Grit block for a while you are very familiar with Laini because she has been on this show so many times to have meaningful conversations with me. In case you have never heard of Laini before, I will tell you that she is a women’s health advocate. She is an amazing coach in her own right, and she is also a Functional Diagnostic practitioner. I love having Laini on the show because, number one, we’re dear friends, and we have a lot of amazing conversations behind the scenes, and so I like having her on the show to bring some of those conversations to you. But Laini also has a knack for really tackling the biochemical side of women’s wellness, where I tend to talk a lot more about the self leadership components, the mental and emotional health components, and I feel like our specialties really help to complement each other and bring you a more cohesive and well rounded conversation around women’s health.

Courtney Townley 1:50
So in today’s episode, we are going to be tackling the topic of boundary setting, because this is so crucial at midlife, if you want to protect your valuable resources, if you want to prevent burnout and keep yourself well, you are going to have to learn how to set boundaries. And I know that can be a really tough thing for an awful lot of women, because we have spent a lifetime trying to not disappoint other people, to try trying to put other people’s priorities ahead of our own. And so if we have not been strong practitioners of boundary setting. Man, can it feel awkward and hard? So if you are someone who rumbles with setting boundaries, but you also understand the value of having them, this episode today is for you. We’re going to cover a lot of ground, so let’s get to it.

Courtney Townley 2:40
Hello, my friend. Hello. How are you today? I am good. I’m like, busy, like my brain, if I let it, it’s gonna take off in 10,000 different directions, right? But I’m so happy to be here with you, and I’m really happy to have this conversation. Yeah, it’s a good one. Yeah, such an important one. So in the intro, I was telling listeners that right boundaries, it’s almost like, I don’t think at any point in our life we really get away with not having them, like we always suffer consequences, but especially at midlife, it becomes even more important, because we tend to be so low on resources, and it can get us in a whole lot of trouble if we don’t have them. Yes, yeah. So I want to read just a couple of little stats here, because I think it’s compelling and I think it just gives us it sets us up well for this conversation. Boundaries isn’t just a mental health thing, right?

Courtney Townley 3:34
It’s very much a physiological benefit to have boundaries, and some of these studies really helped to support that. So Journal of Occupational Health Psychology found that employees who maintain strong work life boundaries reported 35% lower burnout rates and better sleep quality. And we all know what sleep does for health, right? Massive. Yeah. And then my alma mater, University of Michigan, did a research study that revealed individuals who consistently maintain healthy boundaries have a 40% lower risk of developing stress related health conditions like that’s significant. It is. And then there’s some research from the American Psychological Association showing that maintaining and setting boundaries helps to reduce anxiety and symptoms of depression. So this is just a small sampling of the benefits that we could probably dig for in terms of the research, but I think that those all just help to really advocate for this conversation.

Laini Gray 4:34
Yeah, that’s a great one. Yeah.

Courtney Townley 4:36
So my friend, how do you think of boundaries, like when someone asks you, like, what? What I always say to my clients, right? I always ask them the question, if you met somebody who’d never heard that word before, how would you explain it?

Laini Gray 4:49
Well, I kind of think of it as, like, guard rails, right?

Courtney Townley 4:53
That’s so funny. I just wrote the same thing, yeah? Guard rails,

Laini Gray 4:57
yeah. So you’re heading down the road and you. Need to have some boundaries. So if you go too far to this way, you could go off the road. If you go this far, you go into traffic. You know you need to stay the course. So you need to know where you’re going and where the limits are on each side of how far you can go. Yeah, so boundaries or guardrails are actually protective.

Courtney Townley 5:15
They’re protective of our resources completely, completely. And

Laini Gray 5:19
when we don’t follow those boundaries, or we decide that we don’t need that guardrail. How many times do we end up in the ditch, in a field somewhere where far away from where we want to be, and we can’t get back on the right path,

Courtney Townley 5:32
right? And you and I are Montana girls, we drive a lot of crazy mountain roads, right? And it is terrifying when you’re on like a windy mountain road that has no guard rails? Yes, it’s not a comforting thought. No. So I love that. I love like we’re the same person here, guard rails for resources. And when we say resources, we’re talking about time, energy, mental bandwidth. Is there anything else you want to add to that?

Laini Gray 5:55
Just, I mean, just in life in general, having those boundaries of what’s important to you, I think that’s one of the things people forget, is that, instead of saying I shouldn’t do this or I shouldn’t do that, it’s what’s most important to me. Yeah, and how do I conduct a lot in, you know, on the road, and then what keeps me from attaining what’s actually important to me? Right?

Courtney Townley 6:14
I think that’s a good point Laney, because so many women that I know, you and I both work with, they’ll often use language like, I don’t feel successful, I don’t feel like I’m improving my health. I don’t, but they don’t. They haven’t necessarily qualified what that means to them, yeah? And so without that clarity, it’s really hard to establish boundaries if you don’t know what’s important

Laini Gray 6:35
to you. Yeah. I mean, that’s what, like, you know, when you think about somebody who’s training for a race, yeah, they have boundaries, because they know I have to do this run today, I have to do this tomorrow. So they they schedule their day, and they make sure they’re getting the right fuel and the right sleep schedule and the right warm ups and all of these things, because they have that specific goal. But when we don’t have any kind of goal or know what’s important to us, it’s really hard to stick to boundaries or guidelines because we don’t know what the why is. Why are we doing absolutely, you know.

Courtney Townley 7:04
So just note to listener, if you have not recently circled back to your values or your standards for your own life, not that, not the standards that the world has for you, because man, we can get lost down that rabbit hole, and a lot of women have been conducting their life based on those standards. But we’re really talking about, what are your standards? What are the things that are most important to you? What are the things that you want to have energy for in the day? And when you keep those things at the forefront of your mind, having these guard rails, gets a lot easier. Yeah, so good.

Courtney Townley 7:35
I would add two more. I wrote that boundaries are authenticity fortifiers. So when I I respect myself enough to risk disappointing you, that’s a boundary. It doesn’t mean I want to hurt you. It doesn’t mean it’s out of malice or ill intent. In fact, it comes from a really good place. In order for me to respect my resources, my health, my capacity. I’m drawing a line, a line in the sand here, yeah. And when we’re authentic with people on that level, it helps us to deepen relationships. So I also think that boundaries are relationship fertilizer. Yes, right?

Courtney Townley 8:18
When people know who we really are, which when we’re people pleasing all the time, people don’t know who we really are, because we’re just doing what will make them happy and please them, but a lot of times, we’re disappointing ourselves in the process. So when we are willing to set boundaries, I think it does deepen relationships, because it allows people to really get to know who we are. And I’m not saying everyone’s going to like who we are, because they’re not like one of my mentors always says you could be the juiciest peach in the world, and someone’s just not gonna like peaches, right?

Laini Gray 8:45
And it’s so true, totally. And it’s okay,

Courtney Townley 8:48
and that’s okay, but what an awesome filter. If I show you who I am by having some of these hard conversations, showing you how I want to be loved, showing you what I will and will not tolerate, those relationships are going to be so much richer than if I’m really covering up who I am because I’m afraid of disappointing or rippling the waters completely.

Laini Gray 9:11
And if you’re being authentic, it allows the other person to be authentic as well,

Courtney Townley 9:16
for sure, right? There’s that permission. I really

Laini Gray 9:19
would love to go out. But I really do better if I’m in bed by 930 or something, you know, and then I’ll go, Oh my gosh, me too. Well, then why are we? Let’s go out at six, you know, point.

Courtney Townley 9:32
Yeah, that’s so good. And, you know, it kind of makes me think of like, you know, when we talk about the nervous system, we talk a lot about CO regulation, that the energy you bring into a room is not just affecting you, it’s affecting the room. That’s what co regulation is. And like humans take on the energy of other humans. We know this with kids, like when my kid was really little, if he was really upset about something, and then I got really upset, nothing good would come of that. But as adults, it’s the same thing. And I think. What you just said, there is so spot on that it’s almost like a form of like, when we see a woman giving herself permission to leave the party early, to put herself to bed on time, to say no to another glass of wine, whatever it is, there is almost like that CO regulating of like, Oh, I could do that too

Laini Gray 10:17
totally, because you’ve lived up to this point doing more and doing more, because everybody was doing more and doing more. Yes. So part of is to take care of ourselves, but then take care of other people by showing them it’s okay and it’s a good thing. And

Courtney Townley 10:30
what is the standard like? The standard quo is women not setting boundaries, not right? Yeah, not asking for what they need. And so if we want to turn that tide and we want that to change, we someone’s got to initiate that. Someone’s got to be the leader of that. Yes, I would add one more thing, simply that boundaries are a practice, right as anything in life is. So if you are someone listening to this and you’re like, I am terrible at setting boundaries, I just want you to remember that it’s not that you’re terrible, it’s that you simply don’t have a practice of doing it, so you’re feeling a little unskilled. Yeah, that’s all it is.

Courtney Townley 11:05
And so if you commit to the practice, and we’re going to talk about that by the end of the show today, some ways that you can enter these waters more gracefully and not in such a scary way. But if you start to practice, what you will find over time is that you it doesn’t become it’s not so hard. You don’t feel so guilty. You aren’t spending weeks and months spinning out about setting a boundary. Yeah, okay, so what do you think some signs are that someone has healthy boundaries? Like, what are some sign posts for you?

Laini Gray 11:36
When they show up energized, when they’re ready to give to the conversation or to the work or whatnot. And they always have a, you know, hey, I’m heading out now. They leave gracefully. They end their work day. They turn their phone off at night. They’re not answering texts or emails at nine and 10, you know, not always available, boosting something at 11 or two in the morning, you know, those kind of things. And yeah, they’re just happier and more balanced. They just feel better, yeah,

Courtney Townley 12:02
for sure. So I was thinking that, you know, just that phrase of something left in the tank, like, they’re not totally depleted. They’re not pulling up to the gas station, like, like, you know, with their, their their their engines sputtering. That definitely is not a sign of healthy boundaries. Healthy boundaries is that you do like you said, you have energy, you have creativity, you have some excitement to get out of bed in the morning because you’re not totally drained. You haven’t spent it all.

Courtney Townley 12:30
I also put that being able to say no without guilt or excessive explanation, that’s the sign of a healthy boundary set Yes, like and I wasn’t always this way, but at this stage of my life, I can set a boundary and honestly, not think about it like I set the bound. That’s it. I’m not giving it any more bandwidth because I already know why I set the boundary. I like my reasons, and I’m moving on to other things.

Laini Gray 12:53
Yeah, that’s a big one, especially if you’re like responding via text, and you used to say, I can’t come tonight because the kids are sick, or you’re literally making something up. And when you can get to the point and just say the white lies. I’m not going to be able to come tonight and period one full stop, no, over explain, so good. But that’s the practice. You have to do it once and then twice.

Courtney Townley 13:14
Yeah. And those of you listening like expect that you’re going to want to explain. You’re going to feel like you need to rationalize and you don’t. I mean giving a one word sentence which no is right, no is a full sentence. But if you want to say No, I already have plans tonight, right?

Courtney Townley 13:30
No, I have something else I need to attend to, that’s it. Full stop. Nothing else is needed. I also wrote that a sign of healthy boundaries for me, is little to no resentment in my life. When I’m resentful, it’s usually because I’m not being authentic. I’m letting someone take more than I’m willing to give, and then I’m pissed off on the other side of that, because it’s all my fault because I didn’t, you know, I didn’t set the boundary. Yeah. So I think resentment, and there are certain relationships we can all think of where we have more resentment than others, and I would say that’s probably a really good indicator that there’s some boundaries in that

Speaker 1 14:10
relationship. What

Courtney Townley 14:14
do you think signs of not having healthy boundaries are

Laini Gray 14:19
exhaustion, frustration, for sure, anxious, depressed, you know, just like, never can. There’s too much going on. You can’t figure out what to do next, because you’ve said yes to so many things. Overwhelm, Yeah, completely, like, just lost. You’re just like, I don’t even know where I’m going anymore, you know? And then I

Courtney Townley 14:37
used to say no time, like women saying they have no time, because we both hear it all the time. I’m so busy I have no time. And to me, number one, that’s not a fact. It’s not true. We all have time, but the bigger truth is you aren’t allocating your time right in a way that is feeling good to you, because you’re not setting boundaries. Yeah. With yourself or with others? Because, let’s be honest, it’s not always with others. You might be sitting on the couch scrolling through social media for two hours and then rationalizing that you can’t go to the gym because you don’t have time totally Yeah.

Courtney Townley 15:11
So I think definitely the no time, the burnout, the exhaustion, and again, the resentment, right? Like those feelings of resentment can definitely be an indicator of not having boundaries. Okay, let’s talk about why we don’t set them. There’s so many reasons why don’t we set boundaries.

Laini Gray 15:25
Because we’re scared of what we have to do, right? We have to really take ownership of who we are, what we want to accomplish, what our values are. And then we have to set them and maintain them, yeah, and that requires a little work up front for sure. Who are we who? How do we want to feel? And then you have to set those boundaries to keep you in alignment with that. Yeah, yeah. I love what. You have to be honest with ourselves, yeah, that radical honesty,

Courtney Townley 15:49
damn it. It’s so hard sometimes, right, like you alluded to. It’s also very inconvenient, because we have to slow down, yeah, and we have to do a little self inquiry about what is important to me? What do I value? What do I want to spend time on? So I can clear on what I don’t want to spend time on? Yes, yeah. And that, in a world that’s pushing us to move faster and, you know, consume more of everything all the time, that can definitely be a very hard thing to do, yeah, I think too, for a lot of my clients, when we talk about boundaries, something that comes up a lot is just this fear of disappointing other people. And what’s so interesting about that, the question I always ask is, what’s the trade off, if you don’t risk disappointing this person, what’s the trade off? And the trade off is always the same. You risk disappointing yourself, right, right?

Courtney Townley 16:43
So I’m not saying, like, sometimes there are things you’re going to do out of love that you don’t really want to do, right? Because that’s just what we do. Like, there’s a little compromise, but when we are consistently saying yes to things that we don’t want to say no to, I think it definitely is a good time to reflect on, why am I so afraid of disappointing this person? Like, disappointment is a human emotion. We’re all going to feel it. Not everything in your life is going to go your way all the time. Hate to break it to you, yeah, and like, if you called me and said, Hey, Courtney, I’m not gonna go whatever we’re gonna do, right?

Courtney Townley 17:22
I’m not gonna go do this thing because I’m exhausted. I’m having a hard time right now. I just need to stay home and, like, have some alone time. Like, briefly, I might be disappointed, yeah. But more than anything, I would be like, good for you for taking care of yours, because the people who really love you really do want you to take care of yourself, right? Right? So I think that we have to remember that, that people will be disappointed, because people benefit tremendously from you not having boundaries completely, and people don’t like change. So when you start behaving differently, not everyone’s gonna love that, because it means that they are a little uncertain about what’s happening. But again, there’s the practice, I mean, and

Laini Gray 18:02
that’s a big one for mothers, yeah? Like letting their children or people in their family help with the housework or the meal planning or all of those things, right? Because they get so used to, Mom’s going to do it all. Mom’s going to do it all. She’s sick, she’s tired, she’s grumpy as heck, but she’ll do it. Yeah, right. So it is. That’s a big learning curve. I see that a lot when you’re

Courtney Townley 18:25
like, describing my own household. I always tell Liam, you know, my he’s, he’ll be 16 in October. Wow. And, like, some of the stuff he does is just so outrageous to me at 16, you know, like, he still leaves like, an empty box, a granola bar box in the cabinet, totally because he’s too lazy to throw it away, or he’ll leave his dishes on the kitchen table. And I always tell him the magical fairy has retired, yeah, like, no one’s gonna come up behind you and clean this up for you. Like you have to take responsibility at this point, and if you don’t, right, I there’s always like, a follow through, like, I’m not gonna do your laundry, I’m not gonna drive you to whatever like, because that’s my boundary is, if you aren’t helping me out in terms of keeping the house somewhat clean. I mean, let’s be honest, how clean can my house really be with a teenager, a guy in Carpenter, my husband in carpentry, and my 200 pound dog, but we try to keep it somewhat clean, right? And that’s the trade off, right? Yeah.

Courtney Townley 19:22
I also think it’s important for anyone listening like this, people pleasing conversation. I know this is a big thing for a lot of women. Number one, we’ve been conditioned, I think, in our families, culturally, to really sacrifice self, to take care of other people and to please other people and to not make other people uncomfortable. But I also want to acknowledge that that’s what fawning is, right? Fawning is a trauma response where, if you were a child who grew up in a household where your safety and your well being was dependent on a parent staying happy, that. That’s not something that just magically goes away when you’re an adult, no?

Courtney Townley 20:04
And so I think there’s an element of self compassion for people who’ve had maybe abusive relationships, right? That could be a marriage. It could just be being with a partner who was not a very kind human. It could be things that happened as a child that made you feel unsafe, but just recognizing that, oh, that could be part of this. And it’s not that I’m unsafe now, right now I’m safe, like, now I’m in a healthy place. Hopefully, I hope everyone listening can say that with, like, you know, lots of conviction. But I think that if we don’t acknowledge that sometimes it’s like we’re constantly asking that open ended question, like, why am I this way? Right? Almost as if something’s broken in us. Yeah, it’s like, no, it all comes from someplace. Yeah, it

Laini Gray 20:48
does. And I think that’s the interesting thing that you’re bringing up, is because a lot of this is learned behavior. We learn it from all mothers. We learn it from other women in our lives, right? Because of what culture or society has taught us, we learn it in the workforce, in school, all of these places, and then we get to this place where we’re like, Okay, I am miserable, I’m exhausted. But is this? This is how it’s always been. So it does take a minute to step back and listen to podcasts like these, where we can say, No, you can break the cycle. You can do something different. I’m making a new decision, right? Yeah, yeah. You’re not stuck in that, and you don’t have to absolutely

Courtney Townley 21:24
and guilt. We’ve mentioned that a couple times, but I think that’s a big reason why a lot of women don’t set boundaries, is they make the decision, they set the boundary, and then they start having a lot of internal dialog, like, I shouldn’t. I should always be right, cheating on themselves. They’re shooting on themselves, and that’s really where a lot of guilt comes from, right? Is that I should be behaving differently, right? But who said, is that your standard, or is that because the outside world is imposing upon you? Which is the latter is probably true. Yeah. And then cultural, I said, past experiences. We talked about, okay, so why do we especially need them at midlife? Why are boundaries so crucial at midlife?

Laini Gray 22:09
Because it’s like we just got thrown into a whirlwind. So you better have something up to protect you. Right? Your physiology is changing. The dynamics of your family are changing. There’s probably something changing at work. Your kids are graduating, your parents are aging. There is a lot that is happening at midlife. And if you’ve been the rock star that’s been doing it all up to this point, but don’t have boundaries, you’re going to be asked to do everything. Yeah, and these are all going to be new skill sets you probably have, don’t you haven’t even acquired some of these skills yet.

Laini Gray 22:41
At this point of your life, you’re like, life, you’re like, Whoa, I’ve never had to plan a funeral, whoa, I’ve never done college graduation or a wedding or, you know, I mean, all of these things. Got through menopause, right? Yes, or gone through menopause, you know, I’ve never had to talk to the doctor about my hormones. You know, all of these things become overwhelming in and of themselves, but if you don’t have even a few minutes to focus on yourself, yeah, it’s gonna be really crazy.

Courtney Townley 23:07
Well, and you and I have talked about this so much on this show and elsewhere, but midlife is such a incubator of having less resources, because we do like chemically, we have less resources, yeah, and we have fuller schedules, and those two things do not like travel so well together. So we have less resources. We have so much on our to do list. And then, like you said, there’s all of these curve balls coming, you know, aging parents, you know, dealing with, you know, trying to get kids out of the house and successful in the world, a lot of people are transitioning either into different careers or out of careers. There’s financial challenges, there’s there’s all the things and so realizing where you’re doing unnecessary labor. I love this phrase, and I wish I remember where I heard it. I’ve used it for years. It’s not mine, but I really do appreciate that phrase of unnecessary labor, because that’s really where we’re leaking resources, and those are the best places to set boundaries. Yeah, right. Love that.

Courtney Townley 24:13
I love that like scrolling on social media because you’re bored, but then feeling like shit because you’re comparing your life to everyone’s highlight. Real is unnecessary labor. Yeah, making a strong decision about your life that you know is right for you, but then hemming and hawing that it’s gonna upset other people and you shouldn’t have done it, is unnecessary labor. I mean, there’s so much unnecessary labor, but those are the kinds of things that we have to set boundaries around if we wanna get through this stage of life with most of our parts intact, right, without major catastrophe. Yes,

Laini Gray 24:49
yes,

Courtney Townley 24:51
yeah. What did I say here? I also wrote down that we generate a tremendous amount of unnecessary stress, which is that that unnecessary labor. And that we’ll never, we will never be able to take care of ourselves. Well, if we try to be all things at all times to all people, yeah,

Laini Gray 25:10
yeah, I Yeah. The the tool that I’ve been using with my clients recently is that at this stage of life, we’ve graduated Well, hopefully we’ve graduated from staying out until two in the morning. You don’t want to be partying four nights a week, you know, whatever the case may be, skipping class, doing all these things, and you go out to the stage where you’re like, I can say no to those things that aren’t serving me, but in midlife, we have to say no to things that are good but still may not be serving us. Do you have to be the volunteer at every school event? Do you have to, you know what I mean, all of these things. Do I have to do the, you know, the non profit fundraiser this weekend? Do I need to be babysitting this weekend? Do I need, you know, all of these, and they’re good things. But once again, if you don’t have the energy to do all of them, they’re not good things for you. Yeah, you can give away all of your resources and then think there’s going to be any left, and then that anyone in the long run. And you

Courtney Townley 26:09
and I know we talked about this on another show about how at midlife it Yes, obviously there are things that we don’t want to be doing that it makes a lot of sense to say no to, but it’s really the things that we want to be doing, and I feel this so hard right now. I mean, I’ve emailed you and texted you about this that I because I’ve been so in the throes of this book and trying to get it done, which, by the way, like my, my all of my edits are submitted today. Like, that’s it out of my hands. I am so glad. I mean, I’m so happy to have it out in the world, but I’m also happy to get some of my life back completely, because the places I’ve had to pull back are places I really love to give, and they are values to me, and they are standards that I have for my life.

Courtney Townley 26:53
But I had to remind myself that for now, for me to take on this project and complete it at a level that I feel good about I have to sacrifice some time and energy in places where I would love to give it. And that was hard. That was really hard. And I know that’s true for every woman listening, that there are certain things that you take on that for a period of time you are going to have to say no to some things that you really would like to say yes to, yeah. And again, that phrase for now has saved my butt for the last 18 months. So if it, if it works for you, please borrow it, yeah.

Laini Gray 27:31
And when I think that’s the point to Courtney is, if there is that moment, if it’s you’re writing the book, or you’re working on a master’s thesis, or you’ve got a wedding you’re planning, or whatever it is saying, okay, but these are my core values, and I am going to come back to them, yeah, but right now, this is what I’m prioritizing, so that it goes well and then, you know, but checking in and saying, I still have these boundaries, I still have these values, I’m just putting them over here for a minute so I can get this one thing done. But too often, too often, we don’t come back to it. We take out another something, and then we never come back. Yeah,

Courtney Townley 28:04
yeah. And I think, too, I see this a lot with women just trying to improve their health in general, that a big reason they don’t necessarily end up doing it, it be, is because they’re unwilling to sacrifice for a time. Because, let’s be honest, let’s just, let’s talk about fat loss, or weight loss, because I know that that’s a hot topic among people. You are going to have to change the way you eat in order to shed unnecessary weight. There is no way around that. Yeah, and that brings up a lot of discomfort, because it changes family meals. It changes your frequency of eating out. It changes how you have to prepare yourself to walk out the door. And people hate that truth, yeah, and so they end up not getting something that they truly want, that really is in alignment with their values and standards, because they’re not willing to temporarily set boundaries in other areas.

Courtney Townley 29:04
But again, that phrase for now is such a great reminder. This isn’t forever. It’s I mean, yes, are you ever gonna be able to go back to eating fast food every day? Probably not, but I’m just talking about the degree of discipline, like at the beginning when, like writing a book, right? I had to be so disciplined in the last 18 months to get that done, but I also knew it was temporary when you’re learning how to strength train, when you’re learning how to eat healthier, when you’re logging food, so you can be really accountable to what you’re eating for a period of time. It’s not always going to take that amount of resources. It’s just for now. And so I think that’s a very Grace filled Act, to be able to remind ourselves that this is a conscious thing that I’m deciding I know what it’s costing me. It’s a temporary cost, and I’m willing to pay it. Yeah, but if you don’t have that conversation with yourself, you are gonna skirt yourself right out of it every time,

Laini Gray 29:59
totally and. I love that, that that’s really that’s really good. And then I would just add on to that with, you know, what are the things you want, just in general? Is it health? Is it finances? You’re trying to get over those kind of things, because I’ve had this one conversation with the client, and she’s overworking all the time, but she keeps talking about money goals, money goals, money goals. And yet she’s unable to lose weight, even though she’s working on doing all the things. I’m like, You are. You’re still not slowing down, right? And doing all of these things. And then I’m over here going, Oh no, I prioritize sleep and days off more than I prioritize work. But that took me a long way to get there, right? Yeah. And when I take appointments that are outside of what I’ve set up for myself, I resent them. But

Courtney Townley 30:45
here’s the thing with you, Laney, and I think this is really important for people to hear, is that because you were willing to really scale that, like you were kind of forced to right, you had a lot going on and like, going through menopause, for sure, but also the death of your mother, your you know, the the medical crisis you had with your your gut health, like that, that all of that, I think, kind of forced you to pull back and because you tasted the other side, you have such low tolerance for going back to standard quote, and that’s awesome.

Courtney Townley 31:18
It’s kind of like the client who stops drinking alcohol because she’s trying to get some kind of, you know, result, like, less inflammation, or lose a little bit of weight, whatever it is, and then she goes back to drinking it, and she’ll call me pissed, and she’ll be like, Courtney, why can’t I drink one glass of wine without feeling like hell? And I’m like, Whoa, there, Nellie, right? Like, because you have no tolerance. Yeah, your system is so cleaned out that now you’re feeling the effects where before you were just feeling like shit pretty much all the time, yeah, and normalized it completely, completely. And once we step back, we do something a little different, like you taking more time, like really taking time off, yeah, seeing the value, feeling the value of that you’re not willing to go back. No, that’s awesome. I think that’s awesome. Thanks. It’s so good. So one other person makes

Laini Gray 32:11
fun of me. My family makes fun of me because the family will get together and I’m always like, nine o’clock, peace out. I gotta go together someone like, I’m never, I’m not. I’m there for the jokes, for the movies, anything. I’m like, It’s bedtime. Do you want me to be nice tomorrow?

Courtney Townley 32:26
I’m with you. Laney, like, my non negotiable, asleep. Yeah. And I have a lot of clients that will lament to me about not being able to get to bed because their husbands are up, or their kids are up. And I’m like, really, because in my household, they’re all still up, and I go to bed. Yeah? Like they all know nine o’clock, I am making my way into the bedroom. I love you dearly. But like you said, if you if I want to show up for you tomorrow, this, this is not a conversation completely, and we’ve all felt the price of Courtney not getting enough sleep, right? He’s like,

Laini Gray 33:01
Yeah, you’re gonna I’m being grumpy from the minute I wake up for the rest of the day. Yeah, totally.

Courtney Townley 33:07
It’s so true. What other boundaries with self do you think like you have leaned into in terms of, like, scheduling work, putting yourself to bed? What else comes to mind for you,

Laini Gray 33:20
even like, volunteering or service type things, yeah, you know what I mean, like, I will find things that work in my schedule or with my energy, you know, to do it because I do. I want to serve others, but I always, I can’t always do it the way they want it to be done, yeah, yeah, you know. And I think that’s one that’s really hard for women, right? Or even, you know, Link graduation presents or wedding presents. You know what? Sometimes the gift card is okay, yeah, you know, I mean that. So that was a big one to learn, because you always want to get, the night the coolest present to give, right me, or you’re shopping the entire registering. What can I get when I’m like, you know, what done? Give them the money. Yeah,

Courtney Townley 33:58
exactly, exactly.

Laini Gray 34:01
And it’s okay to bring a store bought dessert for the potluck. It’s okay, you know, like, there’s just those things where you’re like, Okay, if I don’t have the time, I can still do this without spreading myself thin.

Courtney Townley 34:14
Yeah, it’s so true, so important. So a couple of mine, I definitely on Sundays. I usually give my phone to my husband. Oh, that’s good, because otherwise I’ll just, I just keep looking at it right for what I don’t want to work yeah, right. And yet I look at my phone and then I feel like I have to answer an email, and then I have to, like, it’s just, it’s just constant. So a lot of times, I’ll give my husband my phone just to help me set a boundary with myself. Yeah, definitely, for me, over the years, I definitely have some boundaries with alcohol and sugar, because I just know that there’s things that, you know, the dosage matters a lot in my life, and certainly, the older I get, the more of an effect I feel.

Courtney Townley 34:51
And so I’m just, I’m pretty conscious of setting some parameters around that, so I do feel good, just kind of like putting myself to bed. It’s in the same camp. Camp. It helps me to form, well, tomorrow I won’t go to amusement parks. Like, if you invite me to an amusement park, I will just tell you right now I’m not going like, it’s something I have never enjoyed. Yeah, I will never enjoy. And I just don’t want to spend any one more ounce of my life at an amusement park.

Laini Gray 35:20
I get it, I get it.

Courtney Townley 35:23
And then I shared this the other day on social media. But I think it’s, it’s interesting how anytime we do something new, or we’re doing a finishing a big project, there’s a lot of self doubt that boils up with that. And right now, I’m definitely having to set boundaries with, like, how, how much like bandwidth I give myself doubt. You know, especially with this book coming out, it’s um, it’s not that I doubt the book. It’s that I you don’t you just doubt yourself, and like all the things that go along with that. And if I give it an inch, it will take a lot, so I’m really having to just kind of constrain myself from indulging in that. What about boundaries with others? What are some boundaries you’ve set with other people?

Laini Gray 36:08
I don’t answer well, for my phone, I have it on and, well, it doesn’t ring after 9pm Yeah, or before six. I don’t think, actually seven. I don’t think I let it ring out loud. So I don’t answer the phone a lot in the evenings or in the mornings, like, we’ll get back to them later. Definitely put times on things like, when I say people, like, if I have people over the house, this is from six to eight, I’ll start the end time earlier than I want it to be, so people can leave.

Courtney Townley 36:34
Like, you have to leave now, yeah, yeah. A lot of comfort to bed. Totally.

Laini Gray 36:40
A lot of times, in that case, I will make the food choices so that the food choices are all healthy, or are in a line with what I want to eat, you know, those kind of things, yeah, yeah. And then just keeping a break, just taking a break too. Sometimes we don’t always have to be talking. So I know, like, you know, I’ve talked about taking a recess and things like that. So when I’m getting really frustrated and things like that, I just need to take a break and go outside, go for a walk, go sit in the sun, give me 15 minutes. It’s amazing just to let all that go and come back reset, you know, really giving yourself a minute to step away, yeah, like, if you’re feeling frustrated, I just, I just have to, like, get away from the situation for a minute. And that’s okay, yeah. And if we were traveling, which, you know, we travel together once a while, it’s like, okay, Courtney, I’ll stay in a couple hours, right? So then we’re excited to be together. We’re not always glued at the hip, so I definitely take breaks from people I’m spending time with, which might sound funny.

Laini Gray 37:38
I mean, I know, because we all you always think

Laini Gray 37:40
when you travel with people that you need to be together and have to go to and have to go to dinner every minute, and those kind of things you don’t have to your grown ups. Yeah,

Courtney Townley 37:47
yeah, yeah. I mean, I take that definitely a step further, because I do at least one trip alone a year, and that is seriously the best thing for me, like it is so much nutrition, because I am talking all the time. I’m talking on the show, I’m talking to my clients, I’m talking to my family and my friends, and I love it all dearly. I wouldn’t trade any of it for anything, and I am so much better in all of those areas where I’ve had a week or two or a month, where I’m just not talking, you know, and I’m just re, re learning Courtney and re connecting with her. And I’m not saying that’s for everyone, but for me, that is something that, like, I just, I can’t imagine that ever not being a part of my life, because it is so life giving.

Courtney Townley 38:30
Yeah, I would say definitely with work, I’m terrible. I’m not saying I’m good at this, but I go through periods of trying to be better. I do feel like I work all the time because I’m either thinking about the next project, or I’m working on the next project, or I’m working on a masterclass or and it’s because I love it. I love what I do, and when I don’t have healthy boundaries with it, I definitely get more burned out, I get more tired, I get more resentful that I don’t have time with my family. So there, there is definitely work to be done in that area, and my husband knows I won’t go to Costco on the weekends. Like, will not happen ever. Yeah, no. Like, that is a hard pass. Anyone else can go, but we will go without groceries if need be. But I am not going to Costco on the weekends. Okay, let’s talk about tips for setting boundaries, because I think that that’s a big it’s a big part of this podcast today of just helping clients, or not clients, but helping listeners who may not have strategies for setting boundaries. What would you recommend? First of

Laini Gray 39:36
all, you have to think about what really lights your fire and excites you, because if somebody asks you to do something and it’s not a hell yes, then you need to contemplate how to say no, right? So the one phrase that I’ve liked forever is that your yes has no power until you learn to say no, because when you learn to say no, you will start saying yes to things that you enjoy, that really matter, and you’re not always. Bogged down by saying yes all the time. So really understanding what are the things that I have energy to do, what are the things I have to do? And it’s okay to say no, practicing saying no, yeah. And even if it’s just listening to us and we say, Do you want to do the dishes, and you just answer right now and say no. Lainey Courtney, I don’t want to do the dishes. Practice that say no. I

Courtney Townley 40:19
love that. You’re bringing this up, though, because I think easy entries are a really important thing when it comes to boundaries if you don’t have a practice of it. So one of the things I offer my community a lot is, you know, if you, if you go to a coffee shop and you order a coffee and it comes and it’s the wrong drink, you practice going and asking for what you ordered. Yeah, right. Like, that seems so silly.

Courtney Townley 40:42
Or you, you want to refund on something, but you’re like, oh, I don’t want to be a pain, or I don’t want whatever. Like you, you make the effort to go get the refund. Like, it doesn’t seem like direct boundary setting, but it’s helping you to lean into that level of discomfort. Yeah, and you might be really surprised how far that takes you. Like, I used to be terrible at like, if someone made a mistake with an order, I would just eat whatever they put on my table, you know.

Courtney Townley 41:08
Or if there was something like a service that I paid for and I was really unsatisfied with the quality of the service, I would never speak up. But now, like, I am a totally different person in that regard. I’m not a jerk about it, but I’m spending valuable time, money and energy, and I expect what I thought I was gonna get, and so I that has helped me to set boundaries, is just speaking up in those types of scenarios we said earlier, don’t over explain, right?

Courtney Townley 41:34
Just using that language that, you know, I always like the phrase, you know, I love you, and I really care about this relationship, and I would love to, and it’s not a but, yeah, it’s just and I don’t have time, and I’m really feeling kind of tapped out right now, and I have other plans. That’s it, full stop. No more explanation needed. I would also say just expect discomfort, ladies, it’s so uncomfortable to set boundaries, especially if you don’t have a practice of doing it. But here’s the thing, I want you to consider, how much discomfort Do you have by not setting boundaries? I bet you have a lot, and there’s no benefit on the other side of that. But setting a boundary as uncomfortable as it can be, there is benefit on the other side. Yeah. So just either way, there’s going to be discomfort. You might as well pick the one that’s going to get you something on the other side. Yes, yeah. And then I

Laini Gray 42:28
would also say, practice this. Let’s practice this. Yes. Courtney, I was thinking we should go to Costco on Saturday, like, if I pick you up with 11,

Courtney Townley 42:38
I love you, Laney. And hell no, okay,

Laini Gray 42:40
right. It’s just practice these things with your friends, right? Just practice saying them, and all of a sudden, it’s kind of funny, but you’ll be able to do

Courtney Townley 42:48
it, yeah, absolutely. And again. Like, I think that it allows you to get to know me on a level where you can just say, Yeah, I’m not inviting Courtney because I know she hates Costco on Saturday. Oh so good. Okay, one more thing I want to talk about before we wrap this up, which is dealing with pushback, because, again, you will disappoint other people. People will not love you saying no, people will. It’s kind of like people who are trying to give up alcohol and they go to a bar with their friends. First of all, probably a bad idea to the bar with your friends, but let’s just say that you go, they’re gonna keep pressuring, pressuring, pressuring. So how do you deal with the pushback when someone is uncomfortable with your boundary, they don’t like your boundary, or they’re just completely disrespecting your boundary.

Laini Gray 43:34
You just say, this is how I feel. This is what I’m doing. You need to stand up for yourself, right? But this is really an opportunity to see who your real friends are too because people that love you and care about you want to respect your values, your feelings and your goals and aspirations. So if I say I’m not drinking tonight, it’s not something I want to do. Anything else, nothing else.

Courtney Townley 43:55
You don’t protect your boundaries. Don’t expect anyone else to protect them. Like that’s the thing, right? Is we expect other people to honor them, but we’re not even honoring our boundaries because we’re constantly giving into them so easily. So a big part of I think healthy boundary setting is not just setting the boundary, but keeping the boundary, honoring your boundary, maintaining the boundary. I love the quote from Brene Brown that says boundaries are the distance at which I can love you and me simultaneously. Yeah, it’s so good, right?

Courtney Townley 44:25
So it’s like we sometimes we think that boundaries are like, they’re cruel or they’re it’s a bad thing. But no, it’s actually in devotion to healthy relationships. Great. So if you hear nothing else from the show today, I hope you will hear that that boundaries help to deepen and promote healthy relationships. So I’m just trying to see if there’s anything else I would say about dealing with the pushback.

Laini Gray 44:50
Well, even, even you know, Mel Robbins, let them. Yeah, let them. They’re going to be disappointed. Let them. Let them be disappointed. It’s okay. That’s not. On you. You just get to let them respond how they’re going to respond, but respect yourself enough to let them and move forward. I think

Courtney Townley 45:09
the undercurrent of that, too, is realizing what is your work and what isn’t. So when you’re upset with my boundaries, that’s not my work, not that’s your work, right? Like I’m clear on where I am. That’s why I have a boundary. Yeah, you being disappointed with it. That is your work. That is for you to rumble with. So let people rumble with their own emotions, like you don’t need to fix it all, because, honestly, you can’t fix it. No, they’re gonna be disappointed.

Courtney Townley 45:36
And I also love that phrase of just, I understand you’re disappointed, and this is just something that’s important to me. I feel really strongly about this, so we’re acknowledging their disappointment, but I’m not trying to save you from it. I’m not trying to fix it for you. Yeah, right? This is about me. It’s not about you,

Laini Gray 45:54
yeah? And if they waited till the last minute to ask for your help, that’s not on you either, right, right? Because that comes up a lot the last minute you’re getting these calls to do things you don’t have a 16 year old boy, I know, yeah, you know this, right? And that’s part of this is like, we want to save everybody. We want to come No, that’s not on you. If they didn’t think, you know, they didn’t plan the graduation far enough in advance, that’s not on you.

Courtney Townley 46:17
Well. And here’s the other thing with that, is that I think that when we really honor our own boundaries, people really take that into the future. So they know, if I want her help in the future, I’ve got to let her I’ve got to give her a fair amount of time to say yes to that, or I need to, you know, whatever she asked of me, I need to honor that if I want her to participate here, and that’s a great thing. It makes your life easier, and you’re able to help show up and support them as well. Yeah. So good.

Courtney Townley 46:48
So for anyone listening, if you are getting a lot out of this conversation, you want to go a little bit deeper with it. I just want to remind you that our masterclass inside of Rumble and Rise for the month of May, I have to remember where weare in the year is Grace-Filled Boundary Setting. So we’re I’m teaching a masterclass all about this. And then, of course, the rest of the month, people who are in the Rumble and Rise community, I give them a lot of support to help practice that skill. But if you just decide to purchase it as a one off class. You can do that as well, and it comes with a really robust companion guide, and it’s a pretty meaty class. So I’m just throwing it out there. If you want to find out more about that, you can just head on over to graceandgrit.com/masterclass.

Courtney Townley 47:33
Once again, that’s graceandgrit.com/masterclass. All right, my friend, I feel like we covered a lot of ground. We could talk about this for like, seven more hours, I have no doubt, but I always appreciate you being here, and it’s so fun to have these conversations with you.

Laini Gray 47:48
Thanks so much. Courtney,

Courtney Townley 47:55
Thank you for listening to the Grace and Grit Podcast. It is time to mend the fabric of the female health story, and it starts with you taking radical responsibility for your own self care. You are worth the effort, and with a little grace and grit, anything is possible.